Monday Message 01.07.13
CBA Chairman’s Update:
Michael Turner QC
Personal Email: [email protected]
The Monday Message 01st July 2013
- Do Right Fear No One; Chairman’s Comment
- The backbench debate: A report Back
- The Westminster Hall Debate on Legal Aid in Wales
- Election for Vice-Chair your candidates set out their stall
- The E-Petition rockets passed the 100,000 mark
- The Consultation Scandal grows
- Making Use of FOI. Find out what the Department has had to cough up
- Legal Aid has been reducing for years. The Government spin exposed
- The CPS continues to give new meaning to the word “shambles”
- Report Your Delays
- Lord McNally huffs and puffs in the Huffington Post
- The Bar Standards Board makes it even easier to Con the Public
- Birmingham Law Centre closes
- Direct Access: Barristers to enter tender wars
- The Excellent Joshua Rosenberg warns of chats in private with Grayling
- Our Own Emma Nash collars Grayling
- A Round Table Discussion on the Future of the Professions
- The Sexual Offences Conference: The Education Committee excels itself
- Support Aaron to support the Macmillan Trust
- Another amusing piece from “Somewhere on the Western Circuit”
- More fun for the excellent solicitor Stuart Wild
1. Do Right Fear No One; Chairman’s Comment
I am in up beat mood again this week and I remain drug free. The House of Lords kicked Grayling’s ludicrous plans to privatise the prison service back into the Commons, his own civil servants ran for the hills HERE and Grayling (cowardly to the last) failed to come to the House to defend his scheme. The Lib Dems are now under a three line whip to oppose the plans. It is difficult to see where Grayling can go now. He will be unable to avoid turning up for the Judicial Select Committee on 3rd July. It is interesting what this plan to destroy our system of justice has done. It has made us all realise that our public services our being taken away from its citizens and delivered up to the private sector on contracts with no penalty clauses who do not pay their corporation tax. We are not going to stop until the public get the money that is theirs to preserve what should be their birthright. We should be grateful to Grayling and Gibby for one thing they have opened Pandora’s Box.
2. The backbench debate: A report Back
View the Debate HERE
Read the Debate HERE
Chris Grayling, coward to the end, failed to turn up to the debate preferring to do a little electioneering in Bedford HERE.
He must have known what was to come. His only supporters in the House were Bob Neill and Jonathan Djanogly. Labour and the Lib Dems were united against the proposals supported by some notable Conservatives David Davis, being one, who called his proposals “Soviet in Nature”. Bob Neill, embarrassed himself and the Bar by thinking it was amusing to declare that he had not read any consultation response nor indeed the speech he was about to deliver. Grayling had sent along in his stead another barrister junior minister Jeremy Wright. He was very confused. In order to counter the CBA plan requiring the banks to cover the cost of their fraud cases, he stated that 30% of all high cost cases were to be taken out of legal aid. Presumably, he had not even read the proposals which propose a 30% cut in fees. Meanwhile Ian Swales (Lib Dem) painted the horrific picture where G4S would ultimately be responsible for the entire criminal process. Showing complete contempt for the tax payer, eight of the MOJ Civil Service team turned up to scowl as their plans were ripped apart.
3. The Westminster Hall Debate on Legal Aid in Wales
Read it HERE
The Government showed as much contempt for Wales as they possibly could by sending only a whip to respond. They will live to regret that attitude.
4. Elections for Vice-Chair
Voting opens today and here are the statements from your candidates. All will produce a 3 minute video piece for the MM of 8th July. Voting closes 5.30 15th July. This is your trade union it should be run in the way YOU want it to run. If you do not vote you can not complain. You can vote online or click HERE to download a paper ballot.
Tony Cross QC: Lincoln House Chambers
Under the chairmanship of, first, Max Hill, and now, Mike Turner and Nigel Lithman, the CBA has made great strides toward becoming what I believe it should be: a national ‘trade union’ in all but name, for the whole of the criminal Bar – in London and the provinces. We face, in the next two years, battles – PCT, QASA and swingeing fee cuts – that will determine whether the independent criminal Bar survives as a referral profession that both prosecutes and defends.
We must not allow the momentum that has been gathered to be lost.
For nigh on 25 years, I have been actively fighting the criminal Bar’s cause from the Northern Circuit. From the green papers of the 80s, to Carter and now QASA and PCT I have organised opposition to the attacks on our profession.
I now put myself forward for national office. May I assure you that, in doing so, I have no personal agenda. Those who know me know that I am a ‘doer’. Let me give you some examples of the work that I, my team and the Leader of Circuit, have done recently:.
- If you wear a ‘NotoQASA’ badge, you do so because I created the first badge at my own expense. It bears this hashtag ‘savetheindependentbar’ because I believe that our profession serves the public well, and should be fought for proudly and publicly.
- If you were proud that the Northern Circuit voted unanimously ‘no’ to QASA (and wanted your circuit to do likewise) it was I that suggested the ballot, and the timescale for the election, and, with my committee, drove it to its successful conclusion.
- It was my idea to hold the Manchester meeting. Nearly 500 barristers congregated at a hotel in Manchester on Monday 22nd April and my team and I organised it.
For far too long have our services been undervalued. We have permitted, successive governments, of all persuasions, to become complacent in their dealings with us; to bully us, and to cut our fees. Everyone knows that if you do not stand up to a bully, he will return again and again. The present proposals are but the latest assault upon our profession.
The CBA has been resolute in opposing, first, QASA, and now, plans to decimate the bar. I am determined that the CBA will continue that fight by all necessary, lawful, means.
We have borne cut after cut. Nigel Lithman said at the Justice for Sale Meeting “Not a penny more, off fees that have already been cut”. I wholeheartedly support that stance.. If the government presses ahead with fee cuts, it will find itself on a collision course with the criminal Bar. The days when we would do nothing but grumble are gone.
We have seen a decline in the work available to the criminal Bar, This is not inevitable. We can do something about it, and we must, if the profession of independent advocates is to flourish.
The public is being sold short, in terms of both prosecution and defence advocacy. The evidence is there for all to see. Murders, serious sexual offences are now being prosecuted and defended by the less than competent. We have the opportunity to roll back the trend by insisting upon a robust system of quality assurance, but not the QASA scheme proposed by our regulator.
The CBA has put forward an alternative scheme, which would ensure that only those actually competent to do serious cases actually do them. By insisting upon such a scheme, we will both serve the public interest and our own, and win back work for our members.
We must be strong in our opposition to flawed proposals that do not serve the public interest. I do not forget the CBA’s proud tradition of constructive engagement with government. The CBA under Mike Turner remains willing to engage in discussions with government, and we have identified areas where savings can be made without damaging the fabric of our system. I am committed to continuing that tradition. We will work with government, but it must value us, and deal with us with respect, and not contempt. We will be creative in our approach.
By offering to continue the strong leadership that the CBA has seen in the last two years, I aim to restore and maintain morale, to develop and grow our membership, to listen, and reflect, the views of the whole of the membership. I will not let you down.
Jeremy Dein QC: 25 Bedford Row
Government proposals have been met with a cogent, passionate, CBA response and thanks are due, but the arguments are not yet won.. At stake are further, unacceptable cuts. Radical action remains a possibility. The Consultation paper signals miscarriages of Justice, the compromising of service to vulnerable clients, and the wholesale destruction of the present market of providers including the Criminal Bar. PCT is utterly incompatible with the provision of quality representation for those who are innocent until proven guilty. QASA provides no comfort, targeting base standards. The recklessness of the Consultation paper must also be highlighted since the MOJ simply does not know its plans will work, it has never presented any evidence that they can. Crucially, though, the media are coming round, as are the public. The time is right to reinforce our philosophy: there is a moral imperative in getting the right verdict. Once it is widely understood that PCT threatens the essential fairness of trials, the country will be with us, the public will not want to see the end of justice as they know it. The onus is upon the Criminal Bar, the experts, to continue to lead the arguments.
The attack upon legal aid is absent from the Coalition agreement. The government have no mandate and the stated total spend on crime at £2 billion per year is highly misleading in amalgamating different types of legal aid. This also ignores that criminal legal aid expenditure is decreasing and that it dropped in most areas from 2009-2012. The £37,500 threshold for qualification is too low and excludes deserving people, just as taking household income by way of starting point is unjust. There are multitudes of ways to save money that do not burden the taxpayer, and the CBA needs to target these. The Bar must be lifted on restrained assets for reasonable legal expenses, long and complex cases should be removed from the legal aid sphere with directors required to insure against company induced prosecution, the coalition should be compelled to keep their promise and cut the prison budget through a “rehabilitation revolution “, costs orders must be enforced and standard fee contributions considered. We must continue to demonstrate that PCT will waste money, not save it. The very trust between lawyer and client that currently generates efficiency would be lost; conflict and apathy will replace efficiency. We must also dispel the myth that barristers lengthen trials when it is our industry that shortens them, and, in this respect, tapering, an insult to our professionalism must be exposed. The CBA is in prime position to educate the public of all this and we make sure there is no let up doing so.
Now is the time to embrace the media’s goodwill. Public relations are paramount and our image must change, modernize, so that public confidence replaces the fat cat concept. We are hardworking, skilled, under rewarded, and the criminal bar deserves to be viewed as providing an indispensable service rather than that we are money grabbers. The Junior Bar deserves a voice, incentive must be restored, territory regained. Equally, stalwarts must feel secure. Weakness by division has been our downfall and we must therefore stand united with solicitors. Minority practitioners have earned our maximum support. It has taken a generation to build a multi cultural legal community, with diversity at its heartbeat. If government cannot bring itself to honour what has been so determinedly achieved, the Criminal Bar must.
I have been at the Bar since 1982. Amongst the highlights have been my years on the CBA committee, with three as Director of Education. That role presented a fascinating if daunting challenge. Between 2008 -2011, my subcommittee grappled with a stream of fluctuating legislation, and I presided over many courses, lectures and symposiums. Education remains top priority and once we have stood in the way of decimation of the Criminal Justice system, and the demise of our profession, practitioners will again be free to focus upon excellence. Meanwhile, the CBA leadership must respond to the developing situation, fearlessly and with sound judgment, the hallmark of our great profession. For thirty years, daily, it has been my privilege to fight for justice. Today, I seek to do so on behalf of the Criminal Bar, and the public itself.
David Howker QC: No 5 Chambers
The Spring of 2013 brought an unprecedented assault on the criminal justice system through the publication of the MoJ Consultation Paper on Legal Aid.
A dark cloud hung over the Criminal Bar and the talk of robing rooms across the land was of doom and impending destruction of all that we held dear.
Now in the Summer of 2013 the sky has changed.
In 8 short weeks all that is good and courageous about our profession has been on display. The caricature of us being “fat cats” was consigned to the skip. The notion that we cared for nothing but our pay packets was similarly rebutted. Barristers across the country came together. Set by set, circuit by circuit until we spoke with one voice. For the first time in a long time we stood shoulder to shoulder with our friends from the Law Society.
Circuit judges, senior judges, ex judges, charitable and community groups declined to accede to the fundamental constitutional change proposed by the Government. Parliamentarians saw what was right and joined the debate. The British public saw the light and began to reject the Government’s spin.
The talk in the robing room and the Bar mess was of renewed optimism and a pride that we had, at last, stood together.
The credit for such a turnaround lies in many places but much of it resides in the leadership and membership of the CBA. Barristers young and not so young inspired by the example and leadership of the CBA brought about the turnaround.
The battle is far from over. It is far from won. But it is also far from lost.
What the unfolding year will bring is hard to predict. Some say the unexpected volume of reasoned responses to the consultation paper will cause a slowing down in the process as the Government are forced to take stock. Some say Grayling will back down on PCT and impose across the board cuts. They may be right.
What is absolutely certain is that the Criminal Bar through the voice of the CBA has the mother of all fights on its hands.
There may still be time for diplomacy and negotiation with a Government that hitherto displayed no real sign of wishing to engage.
There is no time for wavering or uncertainty on our part.
It is to be acknowledged that in these times of austerity when the MoJ budget has been agreed with the Exchequer that savings will have to be made. Our job is to demonstrate to the Government that those savings should not be made by, once again, reducing our fees.
My position is plain. No to QASA. No to PCT. No to Cuts.
I have been at the Criminal Bar for over 30 years. I work in the South East and the Midlands. My chambers is in Birmingham.
I consider it to be a privilege to do a job that I love amongst people I admire.
I have no intention of letting this Government (or any other) take from the public the services provided by an elite and dedicated body of men and women.
Simon Spence QC: 18 Red Lion Court
I was called in 1985 and took silk in 2009. I am in chambers at Red Lion Court, practise in London and East Anglia (Chairman, East Anglian Bar Mess) and have a door tenancy at Dere Street Chambers in York and Newcastle. I therefore understand the various needs, concerns and wishes of both London and provincial criminal practitioners. My practice is an even mix of prosecuting and defending.
Away from the Bar, I have long been involved in the running of arts organisations, giving me a strong background in non-legal communication skills.
The criminal bar faces unprecedented pressures at a time when it is battling for its very survival. The two-pronged attack of PCT and QASA is placing us all under huge pressure to survive let alone do our job properly, free of external interference.
It seems to me that the tide is slowly but inexorably turning in terms of the public perception of what we do and the importance of this to a free and democratic society. The fact that we also represent good value for money when compared to the alternatives whilst also offering a service based on professional dedication and excellence is a message we still need to get across. For too long we have been overly apologetic about our fee levels and unwilling or unable to debate fees publicly in an honest and open fashion, believing it to be something to be defensive about. This needs to change.
The events of recent weeks since the MoJ consultation paper was published and the reaction of the public to the SaveUK Justice e-petition have demonstrated that we can, through proper, reasoned, moderate, logical and firm advocacy convince the public of the good sense of the case we are presenting and expose inaccurate propaganda of the government as to both working practices and fees.
If elected as Vice-Chairman of the CBA, I shall continue the sterling work of those who have gone before in seeking to educate and persuade those outside our profession who can in turn influence public opinion and those who occupy the corridors of power. In Max Hill QC and Michael Turner QC, we have had two exemplary ambassadors for our profession, willing and able to speak out clearly and concisely, delivering what at times may be, to some, a message they do not wish to hear. I know that Nigel Lithman QC will continue that honourable tradition.
The year September 2014-2015 will, of course, be a very important year. If this government runs its full course, the year in which I would assume the mantle of Chairman would be the year of the next General Election. It seems to me that the policies of the various political parties as to the future provision of criminal legal aid in this country will be a central issue in that election. If we are to survive as a profession in its currently recognisable form, we shall need leadership able to debate these matters with the various political parties and present a strong, coherent argument to the public at large. I believe I have the skills to do that on behalf of the profession and am totally committed to use such skills to the best of my ability.
The fact that there are four of us standing in this election demonstrates the depth of feeling at the top end of our profession as to what the current changes are likely to do, especially to the very junior Bar. I have no doubt that all four of us have shared values, beliefs and commitment. The issues between us are likely to be ones of style not substance. Whichever of us you elect to assist Nigel next year and then lead you the year after, I have no doubt that he will do an excellent job and continue to ‘man the barricades’ as previous Chairmen have.
I believe I am the candidate best suited to take on this challenge because of the diversity of my practice in terms of work and place, thereby unifying the criminal bar nationwide and the even split of my practice, thereby giving me no ‘political agenda’ other than my unshakeable belief in the worth of the independent bar. I shall work tirelessly and with all my integrity and determination to advance and protect the profession in which we all so fervently believe and are proud to belong to.
Please give me your vote. Thank you.
5. The E-Petition rockets passed the 100,000 mark
The e-petition started by Rachel Bentley passed the 100,000 mark appropriately on Rachel’s birthday. A huge vote of thanks to Rachel for setting up the petition in the first place.
Current standing: 101,110
6. The Consultation Scandal grows
Time and time again the MOJ, through the medium of Lord McNally and Chris Grayling, have said that this is not a sham consultation and that they intend to read and consider seriously all responses. That claim it appears, as many of us suspected, to be false, as a number of Chambers are reporting to me that their emails submitting their responses have been deleted unread. Below are but two examples.
If this has happened to your response please let us know. The MOJ, making great use of tax payers money as always, have picked up the complaint on Twitter and have tweeted that there is not a problem it is a virus apparently. If it is a virus it is a very selective one because not everyone who sent in a email response has got such a response. But assuming the MOJ twitter team are accurate what does this say about the sanctity of the MOJ computer system. No doubt purchased at vast expensive, with no protection whatsoever and no penalty clauses. So brilliant and so re-assuring. We will continue to investigate.
7. Making Use of FOI. Find out what the Department has had to cough up.
You can find out what FOIs requests reveal HERE
The more we know the better we are able to expose the MOJ for the shambles they are. Knowledge is power.
8. Legal Aid has been reducing for years. The Government spin exposed
Read it HERE
9. The CPS continues to give new meaning to the word shambles
You will remember I reported on the scandal of the Mann case in Coventry at the end of which Judge Griffiths-Jones stated “It is not just about the money, but the terrible cost to the family. This has been a terrible attempt to make an economy, an economy that proves to be a false economy. It is a disgrace”:
You can remind yourself of the detail HERE:
Here is yet another appalling example, this time involving lack of disclosure and a case of rape. Judge Jeremy Gold QC was forced to threaten to find a defendant Not Guilty when the CPS had continually failed to produce basic paperwork before the court. Judge Jeremy Gold QC (sitting at Croydon) stated that “the wholly shambolic state of the CPS in this area is something that I, and other judges here, see on a daily basis. This is a particularly bad example”
You can read more HERE
The current CPS model proves what happens when independent advocates are taken in house. In order to drive down cost the inexperienced are promoted beyond their merit. Once in that position they become too frightened to say they are not up to a particular job for fear of losing their job. Exactly this scenario occurred when the Forensic Science Service was disbanded. All the most experienced scientists were left on the scrap heap whilst the private sector swept up the cheap and inexperienced.
We must learn the lessons and do everything we can to put a stop to this nonsense.
10. Report Your Delays
The South Eastern Circuit have set up a site where you can report the daily cock ups. A good initiative but we need National statistics not regional ones.
Let me therefore encourage you, wherever you are to report your daily cock-up on the South Eastern site, making it clear where you are reporting from HERE.
11. Lord McNally huffs and puffs in the Huffington Post
Lord McNally, in rather desperate mode posted an article in the influential Huffington Post, ‘Legal Aid Reform is Necessary’, HERE.
in which he states about other things,
‘my message to lawyers is a simple one: innovate, diversify and seize the opportunities that are there’.
My message to Lord McNally is:-
“ Get your and your civil servants snouts out of the trough, start telling the tax payer the truth and do something that will actual save the tax payer money instead of talking platitudinous nonsense”
12. The Bar Standards Board makes it even easier to Con the Public
The BSB, who have covered themselves in so much glory in granting Trevor Howarth a licence to extract a fee from the public for a service they could get for free, are now making it even easier to con the public HERE.
It really is high time we had a regulator that understood what was in the public interest and cared to preserve it. All lawful ideas for achieving that end gratefully received.
13. Birmingham Law Centre closes
Britain’s second largest city is to be left without a law centre. The article posted HERE.
Only suggests that Birmingham Law centre is under threat. Sadly I have to announce it is dead after almost a century of giving advice and support to the needy citizens of Birmingham. If this does not make your blood boil, nothing will. We must redouble our efforts to protect the rights of the citizens of this country.
14. Direct Access: Barristers to enter tender wars
A free web site which allows barristers to tender for DA work goes live HERE.
I have my severe doubts whether this is a sensible initiative. The public are always likely to be tempted by the cheapest, which as we all know is not likely to be the best. This is yet another of those brave new world efforts which encourages a race to the bottom and lets down the public.
If you think I am right or wrong about this let me know.
15. The Excellent Joshua Rosenberg warns of chats in private with Grayling
Joshua Rosenberg who is recognised to be one of the most astute of legal commentators can spot a train crash coming when is surely is and gives a well-argued warning HERE
You can see what Lord Judge had to say to Grayling on the subject HERE.
Meanwhile Lord Neuberger takes another erudite swing at the Grayling proposalsHERE.
16. The Excellent Joshua Rosenberg warns of chats in private with Grayling
The mass lobby last Wednesday was looking to be a bit of a damp squib. MPs had got the message and had run for the hills. In keeping however with MOJ “efficiency” the one MP who had not been given the message was Chris Grayling and so he strood into a perfect storm, where our own Emma Nash among others went for the jugular. She reports back for us below:
Meeting with Chris grayling
Houses of Parliament lobby
Mr Grayling was walking though and stopped and asked to discuss legal aid with about 14 or so lobbyists. He wasn’t keen to stop and talk and said he had to be somewhere. He was persuaded to give us a couple of minutes. He skillfully avoided answering much!
He was asked if he just wanted the savings or was set on a new working model. Replied all areas of MOJ budget had to be cut and solicitors had to work to new models to save money.
Asked if he was set on pct. asked to listen to other ways to save money. He denied saying previously that any alternatives would have to be breathtaking.
He was given various examples of delay at court and court wastages which occur daily which are not the fault of defence lawyers.
He was asked to consider the effect on all the smaller law firms who could simply not compete if pct comes in. Warned re dangers of big business running defence firms eg g4s. He denied g4s had expressed interest. Told it didn’t matter what big business interested point was only big national firms could compete. Asked to consider those big firms current performances both in the criminal justice system under various contracts and also generally eg Olympics.
He pointed to my ‘no to QASA’ badge and said that’s not to do with me!
Told him I was sort of person bar should want to attract and retain ie comprehensive education, not rich, teacher parents who had worked hard because its a system I believe in. But that I had to pay my bills from my job and I was being forced out as job uneconomical and not sufficiently remunerated to reflect hard work.
I offered him opportunity to come to court with me or any if us for just one day to see realities for himself before making decisions. He said he’s been to court before but suggested not at coal face. He ought to understand job and court and see real issues for himself before making decisions which will likely ruin system. He said he’s very busy. I said he must be able to spare one day at any time that’s convenient to him to come and see. He said to email him. I promised I would and asked for a promise he’d reply.
He was asked why he refused to meet mike turner qc. He said that he’d met lots of people involved. Asked again. Said lord McNally met mt qc a few weeks ago. Asked again. Said that the consultation period was now concluded. Asked whether the meant he was unwilling now to listen to alternatives. No answer.
Everyone implored on him that there were people there from distances such as Cornwall not because of self interest but because of a real fear of a system of which we are currently mostly proud being destroyed forever.
He then made good his escape!!…
Well Done Emma.
17. A Round Table Discussion on the Future of the Professions
Along with Maura McGowan QC I took part in a round table discussion on the future of the professions you can read the result HERE.
18. The Sexual Offences Conference: The Education Committee excels itself
I should have reported this last week because it was an excellent event.
James Mulholland QC newly appointed education guru and his committee put on a stella event on Saturday 22nd June. James chaired and spoke at the seminar. He highlighted the obvious : where under any proposed government scheme, would there be room for cutting edge education in topics so vital to the public, delivered by a dozen leaders of the Bar and Judiciary.?
The answer of course is that such lectures would wither on the vine, leaving the public exposed to lawyers simply inadequate to the task of ensuring justice in this and many other fields.
19. Support Aaron to support the Macmillan Trust
As you may know, I lost my Mum to Cancer last year and have decided together with my Brother to Hike up Ben Nevis for Macmillan Cancer Support, in her Memory. I would really love your help to make as much as possible for them!
I have written on the Fundraising Page so please take a moment (4/5 Minutes) to read it – https://www.justgiving.com/Aaron-Dolan
There are two options as follows, but you’ll also see them on my page:
· Just Giving HERE
Donating through JustGiving is simple, fast and totally secure. Your details are safe with JustGiving – they’ll never sell them on or send unwanted emails. Once you donate, they’ll send your money directly to the charity and make sure Gift Aid is reclaimed on every eligible donation by a UK taxpayer. So it’s the most efficient way to donate – I raise more, whilst saving time and cutting costs for the charity – So please dig deep and donate now, oh and don’t forget to click for gift aid – this allows us to claim more from the Government.
· Donate with a Simple Text:
It’s easy to donate via text
You simply text
My Code VLWS55
With the amount £5
You’ll also be able to add Gift Aid at no extra cost.
A breakdown of what your support could do:
Could mean that the Macmillan Support Line would be able to help people affected by cancer claim £2,691 in the benefits they’re entitled to.
Could run the Macmillan Support Line for an hour, providing an average of 13 people with essential information and support
Could pay for a much needed convalescent break for someone with Cancer and their carer
Could fund a Macmillan nurse for a working week
Could fund a Macmillan rehabilitation support team for a week, providing a range of services, including physiotherapy and diet advice, to people with Cancer
Thank you so very much, you really have no idea until you’re ‘in the thick of it’, how valuable Macmillan Nurses and support are.
Love and best wishes
20. Another amusing piece from Somewhere on the Western Circuit
21. More fun for the excellent solicitor Stuart Wild
Do Right, Fear No One
Michael (Bloody) Turner